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Freedom to think
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everyoung



Joined: 04 Jul 2011

Posts: 2

PostPosted: 06/07/11, 22:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello truthinadvertising my name is Martin. I don't think I caught what your real name is or maybe you wish to hide that fact for some reason.
The very name that truthinadvertising has chosen is a laugh in itself , which is more than can be said about his silly statements. He says that the Bible is full of untruths yet truth in advertising is of course a contradiction in terms. Advertising is the one big work of fiction.
The more he goes on the more ridiculous he sounds. What are his values ? Does he have any ? Has he asked his nephews children if they are indoctrinated at school? Probably not because almost certainly their replies would destroy his argument.
Were these children christened? Was his nephew married in church ? Do any of his relatives lie in the peace and serenity of the churchyard , even if it is only their ashes ? If any of questions are answered with a yes I certainly hope that truthinadvertising had the courage of his convictions not to go to any of the occasions.
Who says that the school believes Non Christians are inferior ? Having a good knowledge of the school I have never heard that opinion aired by anyone, be it by a child or least of all by any of the fantastic teachers.
Here is your challenge truthinadvertising .Give us proof of that statement then please let us all know. If not then I would suggest that he has the courage to withdraw that remark. We will wait with not much hope for his rebuttal.
Instead of knocking Christianity all the time let's all hear about your values for a change. We might be impressed.! Or we might not.
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Robin



Joined: 14 Nov 2005

Posts: 13
Location: Lyme Rd, Uplyme

PostPosted: 07/07/11, 07:58    Post subject: Freedom to think Reply with quote

Sorry Roy, can't see where you are going with this, it's the same old rhetoric from you, demonising faith and those who have a faith.

Just seems to me from what I have read in your posts, that you have a serious personal issue with any sort of religion & in particular faith schools.

I have read other forums & debates on here that cover "Faith & Belief" and I don't see the need to repeat a route that's already out there.

If you want to argue about the school in Uplyme & how/if/why religion is taught there & the influence of the vicar/church on the school in 2011 (rather than your experience of the past), then as I said before you should go, get involved and find out what goes on. Then argue from point of knowledge and strength.

Good luck with your campaign to change things, but as they say on the Dragons Den - "I'm Out"
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Peter.Single



Joined: 17 Aug 2010

Posts: 29

PostPosted: 07/07/11, 09:37    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robin,
As a past governor and chairman of the PTA, can I ask you a serious question please?
Roy raised a point earlier when he said that the "school is obliged by law to offer a 'non-religious' schooling if parents wish".
I'm not sure which specific law he's referring to - I imagine you know these things better than I. Is this right? Is there such a law?

I've just been looking at the school's stated policies, on the web site.
In the 'Sex-Education Policy' it states that "Parents have the right to withdraw their children from specific Sex Education lessons and written permission is sought by the school ... ".
I've just read the 'Worship Policy' and it offers no such opt-out clause for parents without a religious belief; (mind you it does say that "this policy is to be reviewed inJune 2010" so things may have changed ...).

Are you able to confirm for us that the school does have such an opt-out policy; and therefore complies with the law that Roy referred to?

Peter
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truthinadvertising



Joined: 25 Jun 2007

Posts: 17

PostPosted: 07/07/11, 14:48    Post subject: freedom to think Reply with quote

Peter, the Act is: Schools standards and framework Act 1998 sect 71
Robin I agree that i am repeating myself I will not make any more long posts. I will answer everyoung though
I agree that I/we do not really know what is going on in the school and only use their website. Could I ask Robin and rev to use their offices and try to bring the School website up-to date? There seems to be no (or not much) reference to the disabled as well as legal requirements for atheist types. Will they get a fair crack of the whip? Like to see less ref to christian ethos and more about real equality. Thanks Roy
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luey



Joined: 07 May 2011

Posts: 3

PostPosted: 07/07/11, 20:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps everyoung missed the irony of the name truthinadvertising; TiA is a campaigner for more truth; he does not believe there is any truth in advertising just as there is not much truth in the bible.
Everyoung spouts the tired old criticism that nonbelievers have no values and he really does not answer any of TiA's questions or take up any of his challenges.
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Robin



Joined: 14 Nov 2005

Posts: 13
Location: Lyme Rd, Uplyme

PostPosted: 07/07/11, 20:59    Post subject: Freedom to think Reply with quote

Peter & Roy,
Roy has pointed out the Act that covers the right to remove your child from acts of worship & that is a parent's right for all children under the age of 16. Those in 6th form can make their own decision.

Here is the basis of the Law regarding RE teaching


Religious Education (RE) is a compulsory subject in the state education system in the United Kingdom. Schools are required to teach a programme of religious studies according to local and national guidelines.

Religious Education in England is mandated by the Education Act 1944 as amended by the Education Reform Act 1988 and the School Standards and Framework Act 1998. Religious Education is compulsory in all state-funded schools. The subject consists of the study of different religions, religious leaders, and other religious and moral themes. However, the curriculum is required to reflect the predominant place of Christianity in religious life and hence Christianity forms the majority of the content of the subject. All parents have the right to withdraw a child from religious education, which schools must approve.

Additionally, all schools are required by law to provide a daily act of collective worship, of which at least 51% must be Christian in basis over the course of the academic year.


According to the National secular society, there is a request from a lot of teaching bodies to have this changed (I think this has been put forward this year) & according to Ofsted 25% of schools fail in their legal requirement to deliver this. They also say that parents should think carefully before removing children, so as not to single them out as being different, (a point made by Roy in an earlier post) & approx 1% of children are removed, these are predominantly muslim, due to their rules regarding prayer.

The DoE believe that it is even more important to teach children about all faiths in our multicultural society.

I remember, when I was at primary school in the mid 60's, Catholic children not going to assembly because it was a CofE school.

At the time I gave up being a Governor, we were wrestling more with parental concerns about Sex education rather than religious!

Personally I believe that the school meets it's legal requirements in a most appropriate way. I am sure others will disagree.

Thank you, Robin
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Robin



Joined: 14 Nov 2005

Posts: 13
Location: Lyme Rd, Uplyme

PostPosted: 07/07/11, 21:06    Post subject: Freedom to think Reply with quote

PS. Peter, sorry, in answer to your question about "Does the school have a policy on opt out", I suppose the answer is no, because as it is a Law, there is no say by the school regarding opting out, it is every parents right to exercise this choice.
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Peter.Single



Joined: 17 Aug 2010

Posts: 29

PostPosted: 08/07/11, 08:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robin, Thanks for the reply.
But as I understand it there is also a similar legal requirement to allow parents to opt their children out of sex-education classes if they wish; and the webs-site we're discussing addresses this. It does not, however, discuss, or even mention, the legal right to opt out of religious classes.
For the sake of clarity it would be wise for this anomaly to be corrected in the school's official policy documents.

Peter
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Robin



Joined: 14 Nov 2005

Posts: 13
Location: Lyme Rd, Uplyme

PostPosted: 09/07/11, 07:26    Post subject: Freedom to think Reply with quote

Hi Peter

I've not looked at the website, but would hope it is just to give a flavour of the school.

Not sure what it says in the "School Prospectus", which would be the main document that details the schools Ethos.

May be worth contacting them to get a copy and if it's not clear enough for you in there, then writing to the school to ask them to make it so.
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truthinadvertising



Joined: 25 Jun 2007

Posts: 17

PostPosted: 09/07/11, 09:32    Post subject: freedom to think Reply with quote

Robin
Please would you have a look at the school's site.
It does not mention the disabled or the opt out for non-believers

Thankyou Roy
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truthinadvertising



Joined: 25 Jun 2007

Posts: 17

PostPosted: 09/07/11, 14:19    Post subject: freedom to think Reply with quote

APOLOGIES There is quite a lot said about how the school deals with the disabled in their website. I had to work out what SEN meant. Roy
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everyoung



Joined: 04 Jul 2011

Posts: 2

PostPosted: 09/07/11, 18:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luey
I was not deriding his values - how can I if I do not know what they are. That was my challenge.
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truthinadvertising



Joined: 25 Jun 2007

Posts: 17

PostPosted: 11/07/11, 08:21    Post subject: freedom to think Reply with quote

This is mainly a response to Martin. I would think that Robin and rev may have given a little sigh or uttered a little groan on reading Martin’s first post, but I welcomed it and expected more in the same vein.
I think that the Atheist ethos is due to evolution. Man is a tribal animal and cannot exist alone. This led to some rules governing behaviour and morals; for those breaking these would be excluded and not survive. I would point anyone interested to the writings of Dawkins and Hitchens to gain a fuller understanding. The ethos can be summed up as “ Do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you”
All atheists are different. I, personally do not mind doing the things Martin mentions. My mother and uncle are buried in Uplyme churchyard. I was best man at my brother’s wedding in church and attend other weddings and funerals. The reason is that the whole religious business flows over me and is meaningless. I have given to the local church tower restoration fund to help save an ancient building.
I would swear on the bible in court if I thought I would be more likely to be believed. The bible would have as much significance as a blank sheet of paper and the Lord Almighty doesn’t exist – so what?

I had not intended to concentrate so much on the school. Their website contains the word ‘worship’ at least 19 times: is it a seminary? I have looked at other school sites and some do and some don’t mention the opt-out option. BUT the Uplyme site is, by far, the most religious.
In September the school will be invaded by about 25 atheists. Yes, these 5 year olds won’t believe in any god. Their indoctrination will begin on day one. Yes, Martin, they will be told to go to worship and given no option. They will be forced to go.
Funny really when the bible, Matt 6:6 says the way to pray is in your room alone. The churches don’t like that. This would reduce their power over people and certainly their income.
When I was at Lyme grammar, the vicar, an automatic governor used his influence to gain entry for his gardener’s children to the school early so that regardless of their 11+ results they were already there…
Hardly an honest thing to do. The local vicar was fined for driving while drunk. Parishioners were urged to pray for him. Tough luck! He was soon jailed for beating up his wife. Yes, there will be dishonest atheists too.
Parents should not opt-out their children. Children can be VERY cruel. See what happened to Mr Lake a dear man I knew well. I can’t see where I said the school thought Atheists were inferior; if so I do retract and apologise.
BUT I think you do, Martin. Your remarks show an awful bias.
I will just end by asking you to answer MY questions and respond to my challenges.
Sorry for such a long post Roy
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Peter.Single



Joined: 17 Aug 2010

Posts: 29

PostPosted: 27/07/11, 14:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

You ever noticed how a long, rambling comment can kill an interesting thread stone dead.
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truthinadvertising



Joined: 25 Jun 2007

Posts: 17

PostPosted: 27/07/11, 15:23    Post subject: freedom to think Reply with quote

Seems like it, glad you thought it interesting at one time
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