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justification
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scott



Joined: 17 Sep 2005

Posts: 65
Location: yawl

PostPosted: 11/10/05, 14:21    Post subject: justification Reply with quote

I would love to hear from locals to Lyme, Uplyme or Yawl who feel they can justify breaking the speed limit from Yawl on down.
I have just had a car pushing me as I was doing 30 up the hill. She was obviously unhappy about being kept to the limit, then she turned into a house in Yawl Exclamation Question
We always talk about this problem as if it's the 'others' but it is actually people who we know, live near and work with. Confused
Let's hear from you. I want to know why you think your rights to go as fast as you want override the rights of others who want a safe road and living environment for their families.
Surely you're not ashamed to own up to it Shocked
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scott



Joined: 17 Sep 2005

Posts: 65
Location: yawl

PostPosted: 11/10/05, 14:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel better now Cool Laughing
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geoff



Joined: 17 Sep 2005

Posts: 704
Location: Lyme Rd, Uplyme

PostPosted: 11/10/05, 16:53    Post subject: Speeding Reply with quote

Hi Scott,

You don't need to tell me about the problem. I have been working in Lyme Rd this week and huge number of cars sped past us, both up and down the hill. I would estimate that it's about 50/50 locals to strangers.

Could it be that locals don't know that it's 30 from the village up to beyond Yawl ? Is the lack of small 'repeater' signs on lamp posts the problem ?

Work it out - the distance must be about 1/4 mile. By going at 40 instead of 30 over that distance you save 7.5 seconds Rolling Eyes

G.
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scott



Joined: 17 Sep 2005

Posts: 65
Location: yawl

PostPosted: 11/10/05, 17:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I saw you there Geoff, and the safety barrier...... Confused

I do think more repeaters would help though, there are few patches where it's not clear. However I do not believe any local does not know the limit Exclamation
The faceless few Twisted Evil
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Rhodie



Joined: 14 Sep 2005

Posts: 425
Location: Rhode Hill, Uplyme

PostPosted: 12/10/05, 06:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

scott wrote:

I do think more repeaters would help


You could quadruple the number in Uplyme and there would still be none Surprised
As the law now stands they are not permitted in 30-mph zones. They are deemed not to be necessary and are not allowed, see the following quote:

“The 30 mph speed limit is the most common limit within Plymouth. there are 30 mph signs at the start of each limit, but there are no repeater signs as regulations do not allow them to be placed. There are however 30mph signs with camera warning symbols to warn motorists of the presence of speed cameras and to encourage compliance of the 30mph speed limit. Street lights usually mean that there is a 30 mph speed limit unless signs say otherwise”
http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/v3/about/plym/roadsafe/


Read more: http://www.abd.org.uk/pr/308.htm
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geoff



Joined: 17 Sep 2005

Posts: 704
Location: Lyme Rd, Uplyme

PostPosted: 12/10/05, 09:26    Post subject: Which regulation ? Reply with quote

I suspect that it may be a planning regulation that they are referring to here, not a traffic one because there are lots of places near here where such repeaters can be seen. I will take more note of the exact locations next time I'm out and about.

Another reminder is to paint 30 on the road at intervals. Pretty ugly though.
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scott



Joined: 17 Sep 2005

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Location: yawl

PostPosted: 14/10/05, 16:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we have repeaters with camera warning signs on then? Perhaps even better.
And one justification must be that there is no street lighting for a lot of it, which usually means 60 limit unless otherwise stated. This is different from a more built up area.
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geoff



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Location: Lyme Rd, Uplyme

PostPosted: 19/10/05, 10:50    Post subject: Repeater signs Reply with quote

I have been taking more notice of where repeaters are placed. There are a very few sprinkled between Uplyme and Hunters Lodge. There doen;ps seem to be any pattern to where they are placed.

Personally, I can almost understand drivers leaving Uplyme heading towards Hunters Lodge being unsure whether they have left the 30 zone as there is nothing to confirm the fact until you reach Yawl.

Can anyone say why there is such a shortage of repeater signs ?
Quite honestly I just don't believe there is a regulation prohibiting their use - that sounds like fobbing off to me.

Geoff.
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Rhodie



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Location: Rhode Hill, Uplyme

PostPosted: 21/10/05, 20:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

To enlarge on what I said above, they are not allowed in 30 mph restricted areas where there is street lighting. If you still doubt this then google “highway code repeaters”. I think that the idea of not using repeater signs in 30 mph limited areas is that if you do not see a repeater and there is street lighting then you know that you are in a 30-mph restricted zone. That’s why there are several 30 repeaters in and around Yawl. I don’t think that we have any case here.

North of Yawl it is a different matter. Here the speed limit is 60 mph – so called de-restricted. There are no repeater signs all the way to where the 40 restriction starts at Burrowshot. What is a stranger who finds himself on this section of road to make of the speed limit? Could he be confident in thinking that, as he is in an unlit area with no repeater signs then the speed limit is not one of 30? But there should be a few de-restricted sign surely.
Sad
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scott



Joined: 17 Sep 2005

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Location: yawl

PostPosted: 22/10/05, 11:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

But there are hardly any repeaters between uplyme and yawl, and hardly any street lighting surely. Question
I also think the road form yawl to hunters lodge should be restricted to 40. Cars travel at over 60 on this, and get sudden surprises when a bus and a lorry have stopped to go past each other on a narrow bit Exclamation
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Rhodie



Joined: 14 Sep 2005

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Location: Rhode Hill, Uplyme

PostPosted: 22/10/05, 22:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

scott wrote:
But there are hardly any repeaters between uplyme and yawl, and hardly any street lighting surely. Question

But there is some lighting isn't there? In which case.... Confused

scott wrote:

I also think the road form yawl to hunters lodge should be restricted to 40. Cars travel at over 60 on this, and get sudden surprises when a bus and a lorry have stopped to go past each other on a narrow bit Exclamation
But isn't there something in the highway code that goes along theses lines,"You should only drive at a speed that allows you to stop within the distance you see to be clear"?
A speed limit is not an indication of a safe speed at all times on that section of road.
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scott



Joined: 17 Sep 2005

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Location: yawl

PostPosted: 23/10/05, 17:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what you mean Rhodie, I had a good look myself the other day.
Is the issue that they are not allowed or that they wont be paid for Question I would pay for some more Exclamation
And your point about the speed limit not implying it is actually safe to travel at that speed is correct too. I seem to remember something around the lines that even a green light at a junction doesn't guarantee it is safe to cross Exclamation
Having said all this, what are we going to do about it Exclamation Confused
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Rhodie



Joined: 14 Sep 2005

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Location: Rhode Hill, Uplyme

PostPosted: 23/10/05, 19:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

scott wrote:
Is the issue that they are not allowed or that they wont be paid for Question I would pay for some more Exclamation

I think they are just not allowed and here I am talking about a lit section of a 30mph restricted road.

He further wrote:
Having said all this, what are we going to do about it Exclamation Confused

For the 30mph section precisely nothing. We could ask the parish council to write to the county asking for some repeater signs for the derestricted section. But all that would do is to encourage drivers, who perhaps thought that they were in a restricted section, to speed up Sad
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scott



Joined: 17 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: 24/10/05, 06:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a look at that page Rhodie. It is a bit unclear over whether 30 signs with a speed camera warning can be placed within the area. What do you think Question
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geoff



Joined: 17 Sep 2005

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Location: Lyme Rd, Uplyme

PostPosted: 24/10/05, 09:00    Post subject: ROAD TRAFFIC REGULATION ACT 1984 (etc) Reply with quote

According to the "ROAD TRAFFIC REGULATION ACT 1984"...

"...Section 85(1): For the purposes of securing that adequate guidance is given to drivers of motor vehicles as to whether any, and if so what, limit of speed is to be observed on any road, it shall be the duty of the Secretary of State, in the case of a trunk road, to erect and maintain the prescribed traffic signs in such positions as may be requisite for that purpose.

Section 85(2): In the case of any road which is not a trunk road, it shall be the duty of the local authority -

... to erect and maintain the prescribed traffic signs in such positions as may be requisite in order to give effect to general or other directions given by the Secretary of State for the purpose mentioned in subsection (1) above..."

Hiowever according to the "Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 1994"

"Direction 10(2): Signs to which this paragraph applies [repeater signs] shall be placed at regular intervals along a road which is subject to a restriction, requirement, prohibition or speed limit which can be indicated by the signs, except that the sign shown in diagram 670 [indicating maximum speed limit] shall not be placed along a road which is -

(a) in England and Wales a restricted road as defined by section 82 of the 1984 Act ... and on which there is provided a system of carriageway lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 185 metres apart..."

There is an intyeresting discussion of this by the Assoc. of British drivers at http://www.abd.org.uk/30.htm

Maybe we just make some ourselves and nail 'em up ?

Geoff.
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